Here is the second link again:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030802/ap_on_re_us/brf_s
tadium_crash_2


"Peter Goezinya" > wrote in message
...
> If you saw the video of this emergency landing you would probably be
amazed
> at what the pilot accomplished. I have not found the video, but here are
a
> couple of links. I suppose if one practiced a few times they could do a
> better job, but not bad for a C-207 in between two ball fields. It gets a
> 9.5 in my book (there was some damage so I had to lower the score a half a
> notch). If someone finds the video link please post it.
>
> http://www.anchoragenews.com/alaska/story/3572963p-3604274c.html
>
>
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030802/ap_on_re_us/brf_s
> tadium_crash_2
>
>
>

video worked for me.

Very interesting. He seems to have a pretty high sinkrate started....scary
stuff.


"Aardvarks" > wrote in message
. ..
> Peter Goezinya wrote:
> > If you saw the video of this emergency landing you would probably be
amazed
> > at what the pilot accomplished. I have not found the video, but here
are a
> > couple of links. I suppose if one practiced a few times they could do a
> > better job, but not bad for a C-207 in between two ball fields. It gets
a
> > 9.5 in my book (there was some damage so I had to lower the score a half
a
> > notch). If someone finds the video link please post it.
> >
> There is a video link on this page ...
> http://www.msnbc.com/local/ktuu/m315419.asp?0ct=-302
> I can't get the vid to play ... maybe someone else can.
>
> WW
>
>

Jim Fisher wrote:
>
> Sorry, but this judge is gonna have to take off a couple of points for not
> using flaps.

I was taught never to use flaps on a Cessna if the engine is dead. You never
know how far down the battery can drive them, and you may not be able to
get them up if you need to. I give hime a ten. Period.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

Jim Fisher wrote:
> Sorry, but this judge is gonna have to take off a couple of points for not
> using flaps. Of course, he might have been trying to stretch the glide to
> make the running track but the steep approach tends to suggests otherwise.

Why use flaps when you can slip and have more control over the descent?

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> I was taught never to use flaps on a Cessna if the engine is dead. You
never
> know how far down the battery can drive them, and you may not be able to
> get them up if you need to.

Why would he need to get them back up? His engine was dead He was committed
to a landing.

A serious question, though: Assuming the cause of fan stoppage was not due
to failure of the battery, would not the battery have plenty of juice to
power quite a few flap deployments?

IN any case I was taught to use them to achieve the slowest speed possible
in case of a runway (or running track) mishap . . and NOT to use them
unless you have your landing spot made. Sorry, but I give in an 8 max. Of
course, this is very easy for me to say from the comfort of my armchair.

I should probably take a point or two off for him cruising "500 to 1000
feet" AGL (according to someone in the video) without a really good landing
spot picked out.

Additional points should be deducted for him violating the TFR around
sporting events but let's not be anal.

All points will be forfeited and the pilot disqualified if the cause turns
out to be fuel exhaustion.

--
Jim Fisher

>
>
>>I was taught never to use flaps on a Cessna if the engine is dead. You
>
> never
>
>>know how far down the battery can drive them, and you may not be able to
>>get them up if you need to.

You will be able to run the flaps up and down at least 100 times on a
fully charged battery

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
: Jim Fisher wrote:
: > Sorry, but this judge is gonna have to take off a couple of points
for not
: > using flaps. Of course, he might have been trying to stretch the
glide to
: > make the running track but the steep approach tends to suggests
otherwise.
:
: Why use flaps when you can slip and have more control over the
descent?
and how many pilots nowadays (apart from those trained back in the
flapless days) would be happy slipping for the first time under such
conditions ???

gblack wrote:

> and how many pilots nowadays (apart from those trained back in the
> flapless days) would be happy slipping for the first time under such
> conditions ???

Are you saying a pilot landing under those conditions would be
slipping for the first time?

It's a required pre-solo maneuver

If a pilot doesn't practice it regularly enough to be comfy
when needed, they're missing a portion of their proficiency.

Sydney (has flaps, will slip with and without them)

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
...

> A serious question, though: Assuming the cause of fan stoppage was not
due
> to failure of the battery...
>
>

I'm probably missing something, but how would a dead battery stop the prop
(assuming fan means prop) ?

"Newps" > wrote in message
et...
>
>
> Because Cessna pilots don't have to slip. I have made over 1500
> landings in my 182 and have never had to go around because I screwed up
> the approach. These aren't all 10,000 foot runways either. I play in
> the dirt with all the other right thinking 182 drivers out there. The
> flaps are simply that good. Every now and again I will practice a slip
> but those Cessna barn doors are 1000% better than a slip anyday.
>

If you're high and fast in a 182 in an emergency landing, and you need to
lose altitude to hit the landing spot, a slip might be needed to drop
quickly enough. Then you can slow and use the flaps. But in general, I agree
with you - with 40 degrees out, if you are low you have to drag it in with
power...

Michael

"Michael 182" > wrote in message
et...
> > A serious question, though: Assuming the cause of fan stoppage was not
due
> > to failure of the battery...
>
> I'm probably missing something, but how would a dead battery stop the prop
> (assuming fan means prop) ?

Scenario 1: battery dies, rendering fuel transfer pumps inoperable but for
some reason the pilot doesn't notice. Subsequent fuel starvation because
the fuel didn't get transferred as the pilot assumed it did causes engine to
stop.

Scenario 2: a leak in the battery causes the battery box floor to be
corroded and fall out, allowing the battery to drop out, which (in addition
to causing an electrical failure) yanks on a wire that is connected to the
starter, pulling it from its mounts (loose bolts not noticed during the
preflight) and jamming it in the flywheel, causing the engine to freeze up.

Yeah, I know...you're probably wondering more about realistic scenarios. Oh
well...can't help you there... :)

Pete

"Sydney Hoeltzli" wrote ...
> If a pilot doesn't practice it regularly enough to be comfy
> when needed, they're missing a portion of their proficiency.
>
> Sydney (has flaps, will slip with and without them)

My Cheetah has flaps, but the only time I ever use them (or check to see if
they even work) is during my BFR since some instructors want to see you do
flap landings even in aircraft whose flaps don't do that much to stall speed
(2 kts)... I can do some pretty radical slips though -- one wing down all
the way until just right before the flare...

Jim Fisher wrote:

>Additional points should be deducted for him violating the TFR around
>sporting events but let's not be anal.
>
>
I don't think those TFRs apply to Little League! I think cruising at 500
feet AGL puts him the running for a Darwin Award.
-angus

"Michael 182" > wrote in message
>
> "Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > A serious question, though: Assuming the cause of fan stoppage was not
> due
> > to failure of the battery...
> >
> >
>
> I'm probably missing something, but how would a dead battery stop the prop
> (assuming fan means prop) ?

Naw, you're not missing anything. A dead battery would not cause a fan
stoppage. That's why I was "assuming" the fan stoppage was not due to a
battery failure.

--
Jim Fisher

I'm thinking he was actually in violation of the FAR that says you have to
fly high enough to bbe able to land without undue risk to persons or
property on the ground in the case of an engine failure. Granted, he got it
down well, but it seems awful close to a whole lot of people.

If it was preventable fuel exhaustion, well...BUZZZZ...no credit.

mike regish

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
...
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
>
> I should probably take a point or two off for him cruising "500 to 1000
> feet" AGL (according to someone in the video) without a really good
landing
> spot picked out.
>
> Additional points should be deducted for him violating the TFR around
> sporting events but let's not be anal.
>
> All points will be forfeited and the pilot disqualified if the cause turns
> out to be fuel exhaustion.
>
> --
> Jim Fisher
>
>
>

"Angus Davis" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Fisher wrote:
>
> >Additional points should be deducted for him violating the TFR around
> >sporting events but let's not be anal.
> >
> >
> I don't think those TFRs apply to Little League! I think cruising at 500
> feet AGL puts him the running for a Darwin Award.
> -angus


He is in Alaska, they all cruise at 500' for some reason. I picked up a
C182 in Anchorage that was bought by a student of mine and during the demo
flight we never got above 500'AGL. Don't know why. Everyone else I saw
flew that way too!

Sorry - I'm a little slow...

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Michael 182" > wrote in message
> >
> > "Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > A serious question, though: Assuming the cause of fan stoppage was
not
> > due
> > > to failure of the battery...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I'm probably missing something, but how would a dead battery stop the
prop
> > (assuming fan means prop) ?
>
> Naw, you're not missing anything. A dead battery would not cause a fan
> stoppage. That's why I was "assuming" the fan stoppage was not due to a
> battery failure.
>
> --
> Jim Fisher
>
>
>

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:08:07 -0500, Big John > wrote:
[reoredered to eliminate top posting]
>>and how many pilots nowadays (apart from those trained back in the
>>flapless days) would be happy slipping for the first time under such
>>conditions ???
>
>I for one.
>
>I even slipped jets if I was high/long with everything down (dirty)
>and idle power.

Cool! but I'm sure it wasn't your first slip. :-)

The original discussion was about someone slipping for the first time
into a forced off-field landing. Now, as pointed out, this shouldn't
be one's first slip. In fact, IMHO, one should practice them regularly,
with or without flaps extended. (g,d,rlh)


Morris (owns 3 different "slips with flaps" tee shirt")

--
_________________________________________
George Black
ICQ#: 6963409
More ways to contact me: http://wwp.icq.com/6963409
_________________________________________
Home page: http://www.koekejunction.hnpl.net/
"journeyman" > wrote in message
u.com...
: On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:08:07 -0500, Big John >
wrote:
: [reoredered to eliminate top posting]
: >>and how many pilots nowadays (apart from those trained back in the
: >>flapless days) would be happy slipping for the first time under
such
: >>conditions ???
: >
: >I for one.
: >
: >I even slipped jets if I was high/long with everything down (dirty)
: >and idle power.
:
: Cool! but I'm sure it wasn't your first slip. :-)
:
: The original discussion was about someone slipping for the first
time
: into a forced off-field landing. Now, as pointed out, this
shouldn't
: be one's first slip. In fact, IMHO, one should practice them
regularly,
: with or without flaps extended. (g,d,rlh)
:
:
: Morris (owns 3 different "slips with flaps" tee shirt")